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Pridružen/-a: 03.06. 2013, 19:43
Prispevkov: 549
Kraj: Maribor-okolica
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 Objavljeno: 04 Jun 2013 20:03 Naslov sporočila: Vonj vrtnic |
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| Citiram: | Garden-ja:
Kar sem na konec dodajam še vsebino z neke druge teme. Mislim, da spada točno sem. Je sicer v angleščini in je nisem prevajala, ker je predolgo. Kljub temu se mi zdi škoda, da je ne bi objavila, saj so opisi vonjev redki.
Zna biti zanimiva za lastno osebno raziskovanje vonja vrtnic.
Essence Notes (Daphne Filiberti)
apple
Helen van Pelt Wilson and Léonie Bell describe the Sweetbrier: "Rosa Eglanteria is still one of the first to scent the air in spring. Just as hyacinths are passing and narcissus are coming in, the infant leaves fill the air with an out-of season aroma of apple, for they bristle with oil-laden glands beneath and around the edges. It is the bouquet of applesauce before sweetening, a pungent goodness unlike that of any other fruit or rose. The pleasing scent is diffused whenever the atmosphere is cool and moist in early morning or evening, but most pervasively after a shower when it can be detected yards away. In summer drought, leaves must be bruised to release the scent." Some of the flowers of the Wichurana hybrids also have the scent of apples. N. F. Miller listed 'Zephirine Drouhin' as smelling like apples, cloves and rose. Gertrude Jekyll liked to grow 'The Garland' up into an apple tree. The apple signifies preference as Eve chose to taste it rather than to not. Apples are an ancient symbol of fertility. The golden apples of the Hesperides gave immortality: a prevalent idea in Indo-European mythologies. In mythology the golden apple was given to Aphrodite by Paris in a divine beauty contest, which led indirectly to the Trojan War.
balsam
The work of Ivon Flamment has noted similar chemical properties in a group of roses including Rosa rugosa rubra, Rosa muscosa purpurea, 'Rose à parfum de L'Haÿ', Rosa gallica, and Rosa damascena, basically OGRs, which exhibit a spectrum of fragrances from honey to balsamic to lemon to resinous. (Tommy Cairns writes on this in The Rose Reporter of June 1999). Balsam is midstream on the spectrum and is associated with old world charm. A favorite rose of the Victorian gardeners was the Moss rose, whose calyx and flower stalks are covered with soft spines that are scented of balsam. The scent is released and mixes with the rose's own perfumes when rubbed with the fingers. Most Gallicas, Centifolias, Mosses, and Damasks have the balsam fragrance in their leaves. The scent of balsam is particularly noted in the leaves of the Balsam Poplar and in the Balm or Balsam of Gilead. In A Modern Herbal Mrs. M. Grieve notes that The Balm (Balsam) of Gilead was taken from Arabia to Judea by the Queen of Sheba as a present to Solomon. The properties of the balm or balsam were highly praised in the Bible, the works of Bruce, Theophrastes, Galen and Dioscorides. Balsam was highly prized, guarded, and reserved for royalty.
bay
N. F. Miller noted the scent of bay in 'Radiance' and 'Red Radiance'. Bay is the noble laurel, the leaves were suited to wreaths and crowns which were worn as medals. Bay was believed to ward off lightening and evil magic, to protect emperors and warriors, and to destroy harmful bacteria. The Roman emperor Tiberius always wore a laurel wreath during electrical storms. It has been associated with immortality, physical and moral cleansing. It also has been noted to have narcotic properties. Bay was eaten by the Pythian priestess before taking her seat in the sacred shrine at the Oracle of Delphi. She would be asked a question and her utterances would be reduced to verse and edited by the prophets and holy men. This is not sci-fi; this was ancient Greece.
clove
Graham Thomas notes Rugosas like 'Souvenir de St. Anne's' and 'Fritz Nobis' smell like cloves. Many Rugosas are a heavenly blend of damask and clove. N. F. Miller finds 'Chrysler Imperial', 'Crimson Glory', Hansa', and 'Rouge Meilland' are scented of rose and clove. Cloves, and clove pinks are often mixed with roses in potpourri. A concoction of roses, mint, and cloves can be inhaled to relieve melancholia and to help sleep.
Clove scented pinks often adorn roses in English cottage gardens. 'Inchmery', 'Mrs. Siskins', and 'Rose du Mai' are some favorites from the early eighteenth century. Cloves are reminiscent of old world spice, the clove-scented pinks warm up the garden and act as a perfect partner for the old world roses. Crystallized clove-scented pinks are a beautiful addition to a dessert party including roses and candied violets.
clover
Helen van Pelt Wilson and Léonie Bell wrote: "The Memorial Rose, Rosa wichuraiana, is ideally a creeper, the limber canes rooting where they touch the ground weaving a close mat of small gleaming leaves that in July or August are calicoed with 1-inch white stars. They have a light, pleasing fragrance somewhat like white clover and usually called 'wild rose'. However, scents of native 'wild roses' are quite different." The scent of clover is found in some Hybrid Teas. N. F. Miller associates it with orange roses. Because clover is a vigorous grower, it is seen as a sign of vitality. The Celts saw the clover as a sacred, magical plant. In the Middle Ages it was seen as the symbol of the trinity because it had three leaflets. It is sometimes referred to Mary. The 4-leafed clover is a sign of good luck. The 5-leafed clover is seen as a token of good marriage, although clovers with more than 4 leaflets are seen as un-favorable in other instances. The clover is thought to say, think of me or be mine.
damask
Damask is the true rose essence, the hypnotic potion of the roses, the scent used to measure a rose's perfume. In the manufacture of attar of roses, the Damask rose 'Kazanlik' is used in Turkey, Bulgaria, and Iran as it is the most giving of its oil. Generally speaking, the Damasks, Centifolias, Albas, and Gallicas have a prevalence of damask. The Moss roses have damask combined with a resinous scent of the moss, which can be described as balsamic or even piney at times. The Rugosas like 'Rose à parfum de L'Haÿ' or Rosa rugosa rubra also have a good dose of damask which is often times accompanied by a scent of spices or cloves. Each rose has its own blueprint of scent, yet certain similarities exist within each class. The damask scent is not free on the air and is held inside the petals, each class does this to different degrees. The softly colored Albas yield less oil, which has a slight hint of lemon, than the Damasks or Centifolias. Roy Shepherd noted that the Albas are scented of the fragrant white hyacinths. Dr Hurst believed that true damask was the result of Rosa gallica and Rosa phoenicia, which Graham Thomas classifies with the Musk roses. Rosa sancta is thought to be an early example of a cross between a Gallica and Rosa phoenicia; it could be one of our earliest Damasks. This rose was found in the Egyptian tomb found by Petrie dated c.170 A.D. Some prefer the oil of the Centifolias to that of the Damasks. Centifolias have been used in France to produce rose oil, which has a voluptuous, somewhat fruity tone. I can't put a name on the kind of fruit. Helen van Pelt Wilson and Léonie Bell wrote that it has a note of olive oil to the fragrance. It is not economical to distill the oil from Gallicas, which are the most likely to hold the oil in their petals and are suited to potpourri, or to flavor syrups, jams, sugars, wines, or even a vanilla sauce ('Charles de Mills' and 'Conditorum' are lovely. The Portland Damask 'Comte de Chambord' is also recommended). Red roses with a good degree of damask scent, (traditionally Rosa gallica 'Officinalis') were used medicinally for a number of ailments. Several Hybrid Perpetuals and Hybrid Teas are also used as herbals in the home and successfully as flavorings. Some deep red ones are noted: 'Ulrich Brunner', 'Eugene Fürst', 'General Jacqueminot', 'Hugh Dickson', 'Richmond', and 'Liberty'. 'Chrysler Imperial' is beautiful in bouquets. Experiment and find your favorites, keeping in mind to only use unsprayed varieties. As a class the Bourbons can be scented like damask but with a good degree of raspberry or nectarine, due to their China blood. Damask is the fragrance of love, and the stuff of love potions. An old love potion is made from red and white rose petals (Gallicas and Albas) and 'forget-me-nots'. Cleopatra probably seduced Mark Anthony with damask scented petals when she carpeted the floor to a depth of two feet. The roses that Botticelli painted flowing from Flora (Chloris) in La Primavera or Spring were Rosa gallica, suggesting the relationship between the hypnotic damask scented roses, love, and Spring. (To see a close up of Botticelli's La Primavera link here: (La Primavera) According to E. A.Bunyard, Botticelli painted 'Alba Maxima' and 'Maiden's Blush' in The Birth of Venus. (To see a picture of The Birth of Venus and to read some interesting commentary link here: The Birth of Venus) The Botticelli paintings conjure thoughts of an alchemical relationship between damask scented roses and the Goddess of Love (Venus) herself. According to Tommy Cairns, the work of Ivon Flamment uncovered a fact that modern roses do not have damask as their principal ingredient. Some roses like 'Tiffany' and 'Papa Meilland' are reminiscent of damask; but, because of their complex hybridization have other principal ingredients. *Please refer to The Rose Reporter, The Tinseltown Society's Newsletter for more information.
fruit
Fruit adds character to a rose and can make a rose seem enticingly edible. 'Jaune Desprez' is like an ornamental confection. I have found that the rose has more than a hint of strawberry to its petals, with shades of vanilla. Helen van Pelt Wilson and Léonie Bell describe it as, a mango blend of orange, pineapple, and banana found in magnolias and some Hybrid Teas, but unexpected in an older rose. Many Old European Roses have shades of lemon combined with damask. Graham Thomas wrote that the group of musk roses, also old roses, have almost imperceptible fine fruity aromas including orange and lemon which blend with the scent of musk. Helen van Pelt Wilson and Léonie Bell trace fruitiness, other than orange or lemon, to hybridizations with the Chinas and Austrian briars. The Bourbons are scented of raspberries or nectarines from the introduction of China blood. Wilson and Bell believed that the Austrian briers, Rosa foetida and 'Persian Yellow' gave rise to incredible exotic fruity bouquets when blended with Hybrid Perpetuals and early Hybrid Teas. She noted that sometimes raspberry, melon or banana can be identified but when the term fruitlike is used it refers to a melange of apricot, peach, European plum, and most of all the perfumed nectarine. The Hybrid Teas have a bouquet of fruity tones with innumerable variations. The modern English roses can also have fruity overtones. 'Jude the Obscure' reminds me of candied clementines, honey, vanilla, and even guavas. One rose can intoxicate a whole room with its fragrance. I would like to try shades of it in a dessert wine, but would become drunk from its vapors. Fruity tones suggest whimsy, good nature, good health and spirit.
lemon:
The scent of lemon can be found in many Old Garden Roses as well as in modern varieties. Some nice variations are lemon verbena and lemon geranium. Lemons symbolize maturity, and have been used ceremonially in rites of passage. They were placed in graves, used in baptism, marriage, confirmation, and communion. In Judaism lemons are a symbol of the heart. During the Middle Ages the lemon was the symbol of life and protection against evil forces.
orange:
Graham Thomas notes that 'The Garland' and ''Polyantha Grandiflora' are scented of orange. Oranges symbolize youth, and are generally sweet. Orange blossoms may scent a whole yard with their lovely fragrance. They attract bees and flavor honey. During the Italian Renaissance the orange blossom was preferred to the apple blossom and flowering orange trees were painted in La Primavera of Botticelli. The orange blossom represents purity and was used in marriage crowns alone, never in a bouquet. Oranges are a fertility symbol as they have many seeds.
nectarine:
Although the apricot has been historically linked to insensitivity of the heart by certain authors, the nectarine does not seem to share those characteristics. The nectarine is much closer to the peach botanically. The nectarine has been known for at least 2000 years and is the interesting cross between the peach and the apricot. The nectarine is like a smooth skinned peach, with a firmer flesh, and a more pronounced aroma. I think it represents curiosity.
peach:
The peach is captivating, sensual, intoxicating, and also youthful. Helen van Pelt Wilson and thinks the fragrance of peach was introduced to roses by Austrian brier genes. In China the peach is linked to marriage, immortality amd longevity. Shou-lao, the god of long life, is often portrayed as emerging from, or holding a peach from the trees that bear fruit once every 3,000 years in the gardens of Paradise
raspberry:
'Mme. Isaac Pereire', 'Adam Messerich' and roses with Bourbon blood, via the Chinas, have a raspberry fragrance. Raspberries are lively, full-bodied, seductive, and intellectual. The form of the raspberry is mathematically complex.
honey
Many roses are scented of honey. Rosa moschata has a fragrance that has been described as an exotic honey scent by Helen van Pelt Wilson and Léonie Bell, while she finds Rosa multiflora to be reminiscent of a hot-honeyed scent. (See musk roses for more information) There are many varieties of honey. When blended with roses many new varieties of scented honey can be conjured. Honey represents a condition of heavenly bliss (Nirvana), as well as the highest condition of earthly or heavenly good. In China honey was always included among the foods of the emperor as it's properties were highly esteemed. The Herder's Dictionary of Symbols states that, Honey symbolized spiritual insight, knowledge, and dedication, as well as calmness and peace. It has also been thought to be a mystical substance because of the elaborate and mysterious processes of the bees. Honey has been used in initiatory rites to wash hands, for its cleansing actions.
jasmine
Graham Thomas finds 'White Success' to be scented of jasmine. Jasmine symbolizes grace, elegance, and sensuality. It is amiable, and joyful. Italian brides have been known to wear jasmine for luck and success.
lavender
I find hints of lavender and violets in 'Stanwell Perpetual'. Lavender and roses are wonderful companions. Some favorites are 'Lavender Lady', 'Hidcote', 'Munstead', 'Provence', 'Grosso', and there are many white varieties that are elegant and dramatic when planted with roses. Spanish lavender adds character to the rose bed, with it's mauve bracts. Lavender is aromatic, evocative, nostalgic, romantic, soothing, and healing. In Victorian times it meant distrust. I think it means to proceed with caution, rather than to be distrustful. It is best used in smaller quantities for medicinal purposes; too much can be overwhelming. That doesn't mean that I do not dream of lavender fields in Provence, or love walking through roses with masses of lavenders as hedges.
musk
Graham Thomas lists several roses under the title of Musk Roses including Rosa Moschata, Rosa multiflora, Rosa phoenecia, 'Nastarana', Rosa mulliganii, Rosa sempervirens and Rosa arvensis. He believes that Rosa arvensis is the English Musk Rose of the Poets:
I know a bank where the wild thyme blows,
Where oxlips and the nodding violet grows,
Quite over-canopied with luscious woodbine,
With sweet musk-roses and with eglantine.
-Shakespeare, A Midsummer's Night's Dream
According to Parkinson, it is the filaments or threads of the flowers, not the petals, which are responsible for the dispersement of scent which is free on the air. Helen van Pelt Wilson and Léonie Bell note that: It is a perfume shed by pollen, a breath of mead or some exotic honey that spreads over great area even during the cool evening. Graham Thomas describes the fragrance as an almost imperceptible fine fruity aroma, including orange and lemon, which blends masterfully with the scent of musk. Several of the Hybrid Musks have the free flowing musk fragrance which perfumes the air. 'Pax', 'Felicia', 'Buff Beauty', 'Cornelia', 'Daphne', and 'Vanity' have wonderful fragrances of tea and musk which will parade through the garden. 'Bishop Darlington' is also a lovely addition. Other roses like 'The Garland', 'Aimée Vibert', and 'Blush Noisette' come in wonderful clusters and add refinement to the garden. Musk is ethereal and deeply haunting. Some say it is the scent of the deer, whether the rose really relates to this is unclear.
myrrh
David Austin notes that hybridization with 'Ayrshire Splendens' is probably responsible for his myrrh scented roses. Some favorite David Austin's in my garden are 'Chaucer', 'St. Cecilia', 'Fair Bianca', and 'Troilus'. Myrrh is sweet and spicy and reminiscent of anise. A french chef once told me that his 98 year old grandmother used to make anisettecookies for their aphrodisiacal properties. Wonderful with a spot of tea. Myrrh has been associated with birth and death. In historical terms, myrrh was supposed to have been given by the Magi to Jesus. Myrrh was also offered to Jesus on the cross (Mark 15:23). Myrrh was prominently used in the rites of Adonis. Adonis' virgin mother was named Myrrha (myrrh tree); Jesus' virgin mother, Mary, was called Myrrh of the sea by the early Christians. The Egyptians used myrrh resin in their mummificationprocesses, and the Israelites used it in their holy anointing oil.
pepper
A Peppery scent seems to be passed from the China roses. Helen van Pelt Wilson and Léonie Bell stated the 'Old Blush' gave a pepper smell to some roses. The 'Green Rose', a curious China without petals, is scented of pepper. The Bourbons 'Maggie', and 'La Reine des Violettes' are both scented of pepper. Pepper has heating, stimulating, aphrodisiacal, and cleansing properties.
tea
Tea is an acquired scent, taste, with many aromas suited to a connoisseur. Subtle fruity tones vary and can be quite hidden deep inside the petals of a rose. Roses and tea both contain geraniol, which might be why some roses smell like tea. Tea may also be reminiscent of muscatel. Musk roses were given an old French name, Muscadelles, to suggest the scent was like muscat wine in the making. Several of the Hybrid Musks have the quality blending aromas of tea and muscatel. In my garden 'Gloire de Dijon', 'Safrano', 'Lady Hillingdon', 'Jayne Austin', 'White Maman Cochet, climbing', 'Souvenir de Mme Boullet', 'Maréchal Niel', 'Rêve d'Or' and 'Devoniensis' are some roses that are scented of tea. There seems to be a correlation between tea and yellow or ivory colored roses. Tea is a world within roses; there are many variations of fruit, spice, and flowers (including nasturtium). Each tea scented rose (or any rose) has its own signature and mood, which is discovered in its blend of scents.
vanilla
I have found that 'Jardins de Bagatelle' and 'Jude the Obscure' have tones of vanilla. These are some of my favorite roses, probably because vanilla is sensual, intoxicating, exotic, mysterious, deep and perplexing.
violet
'Royal Four Seasons' and 'Stanwell Perpetual' are sweetly scented of violets. N. F. Miller thought 'Souvenir de Mme Bouché' smelled like violets. I can't detect that smell in the rose, but I love the rose just the same. Violets are lovely when planted with roses; however they are not easy to control.They will easily reseed. I have some beautiful parma violets from the 1800's in pots around the garden. The french crystallize them and use them to decorate cakes. They are elegant and give flair to rose gatherings. They symbolize modesty, and love.
wine
Because of its color and the fact that it comes from the vital sap of the grapevine, wine has been associated with the blood of life. It is regarded as an elixir of life and a potion for immortality. Wine has been regarded as a means of acquiring esoteric knowledge. The Sufis imagined the soul was surrounded by the wine of immortality before the creation of the world. It was forbidden to offer wine to the gods of the underworld in Greece, as it was reserved for the living. As I mentioned previously, Tea or the Musk roses can be scented of muscatel; some of the Hybrid Musks blending the scents of both tea and musk. Some of the deep purpley-red Gallicas like Tuscany also seem to be scented of wine.
Kaj pa vaši nosovi pravijo?
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| Citiram: | Poezija:
katere je vredno omeniti pri meni?
-Burbonke:
Dosedaj je bilo vsega nekaj cvetov. Najmočnejši vtis je pustila prva burbonka Madelaine de Vauzelles, ki je zacvetela od vseh antičnih prva z močnim vonjem in večjim cvetom kot kasneje. Ker prej dolgo let nisem vohala takih vonjav, se mi je prav milo storilo za davnimi časi, ko so bile v starih podeželskih vrtovih kake stare vrtnice z malimi cvetovi, okrog katerih je vse dišalo.
Mmme Isaac Pereire je imela dosedaj samo dva cvetova in je dišala z močnim sadnim vonjem
Portlandke - Damaščanke:
Najbolj odstopa od mojih treh prav Rose de Recht, predvsem z letošnjim pomladnim prvim cvetenjem, zdi se mi da je takrat bolj dišala kot sedaj, ko nekaj malega ponavlja z manjšimi cvetovi. Spomnim se, da sem bila očarana, saj so bili takrat začetki in vse je bilo še toliko bolj intenzivno- HMF ima v opisu vonj po damaščankah.
Kazanlik mi žal še ni zacvetel.
Rugoze:
-Hansa, čudovit zelo močan vonj, ki ga vohaš in se ne moraš nehati napajati.
Hibridne ponavljalke:
-Baron Girod de L'Ain zelo močan vonj
Shrub:
-Astrid Graffin von Hardenberg
zelo, zelo močan vonj. Malo sem jo gledala, prej ne, apmak pri pocvitanju je pokazala prašnike im me spominja na Papa Meilland. Mogoče je potomka le te, saj je tudi rast razpotegnjena, dolge trnate veje in na koncu cvetovi.
Angleške:
Po vonju so me vse, ki jih imam razen L.D.Braithwaite zelo pozitivno presenetile. Res nisem pričakovala tako močnega vonja nekaterih.
-Abraham Darby prva po moči sadnega vonja
-Pat Austin, močan čajno - sadni vonj. Nič čudnega, saj je mama Graham Thomas, oče pa Abraham Darby
-William Shakespeare 2000, tako kot je lepa tudi diši -star vonj vrtnic damaščank (oče Mary Rose)
-Mary Rose, zelo močan vonj, ki ga je težko pisati. Mogoče nekaterim to niti ni lep vonj in jih bo odbil, je pa zelo poseben. Morate ga povohati, jaz ga ne znam opisati. Opisan je vonj medu in mandljev.
Lep sadni vonj imata tudi Lady Emma Hamilton in Summer Song
Tudi vse ostale so diščeče a za odtenek manj
Noisette:
-Izpostavila bi Alfred Carriere o katere vonju sem že pisala v rubriki noazete. Prvi dan, ko se je razprla je bil res rekord rekordov. Ne moreš nehat vohat tega nežnega rožnega vonja. Drugi dan pa je precej manj dišala. Sedaj čakam naslednji razcvet nekaj popkov.
Ramblerje še ne morem ocenjevati, saj mi niso še vsi cveteli.
Čajevke:
-Maman Cochet izpostavljam tu ne zato, ker ima močan vonj, saj ima blagega a je to tak starinski vonj, da te potegne v stare čase.
(kje ste videli še tak opis Wink ?)
Ker imam na spisku kar nekaj starih čajevk upam, da bom drugo leto poročala še o starinskih vonjih.
Težko sem se odločila, a če že moram sem tako izbralaTOP 5 po moči vonja:
-Astrid Graffin von Hardenberg
-Abraham Darby
-Alfred Carriere
-Hansa
-Pat Austin
Lep pozdrav in javite kaj še ostali, da bomo izvedeli kaj svežega in novega. |
| Citiram: | 1vrtnica:
Oho, tale tema je pa zame tako, kot bi biku pred nos pomolil rdečo cunjo. Very Happy
Za letos sem imela v načrtu opazovanje in primerjavo rasti in cvetenja mojih novih vrtnic in seveda njihovih vonjev. Realnost je potem izpadla drugačna kot so bile moje predstave. Nekatere še sploh niso zacvetele, druge so razvile le kak cvet ali dva, cvetenje nekaterih sem zaradi potepanj po rožnikih zamudila... To nalogo sem zato opravila le delno in jo prenašam v drugo leto.
Najbolje mi gre z angležinjami, kjer mi je v veliko pomoč opis vonjev posameznih vrtnic na spletni strani D.Austina in tudi cvetenje lepo ponavljajo, vsaj večina. Še vedno čakam na prvi cvet Gertrude Jekyll, ki se močno trudi zacveteti. Zaenkrat izstopajo Scepter d'Isle z zelo močnim vonjem po mirti, Heritage s sadno-mednim vonjem, Radio Times z vonjem po stari vrtnici. Velik potencial ima po moje tudi St. Cecilia, ki se še ni prav razrasla, vendar je bilo že teh nekaj letošnjih cvetov zelo dišečih, z vonjem po mirti.
Med starimi vrtnicami sem si najbolj zapomnila vonj burbonke Mme. Isaac Pereire, portlandk Rose de Rescht in Jacques Cartier, galk Rosa Mundi in Imperatrice Josephine. Čudovit vonj ima tudi Souvenir de la Malmaison, seveda pod pogojem, da ji uspe zacveteti. Za te vrtnice je večinoma najti opis vonja kot vonj po stari vrtnici, vendar vedno bolj ugotavljam, da obsega ta opis zelo širok spekter vonjev, ki se mad sabo kar razlikujejo. Ni mi še uspelo prav zavohati, kateri vonji so to. Potrebujem najprej močne čiste vonje, potem se lahko začnem ukvarjati z mešanicami, vsaj mislim tako. Nekaj jih že imam, trenutno mi manjka še muškatni vonj, pa verjetno bom še kaj našla. Bolj jasno bo to drugo leto, ko pričakujem resnejši razcvet kakor letos.
Ne vem, ali sta mi prebrali jutranje misli, ampak ko sem se vrnila domov, sem našla razcveteli še Gertrude Jekyll in Eveline. Končno, v junijski rundi cvetenja sta pavzirali. Krasna cvetova in še lepša vonja, prav navdušili sta me. Gertrude Jekyll ima vonj po stari vrtnici, pri Evelin pa še nisem prepričana, na katero sadje me spominja, zelo sladkast in lep vonj je to.
Mojemu seznamu dodajam še Strawberry Hill. Končno je zacvetela, vonj je izjemno močan, po mirti, kot je napisano tudi na strani D.Austina.
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| Citiram: | 1vrtnica je napisal/a:
A morda veste, katera med hibridnimi muškatkami ima res močan muškatni vonj? Iščem vrtnico s čimbolj čistim vonjem, če je le možno...
Garden-ja je napisal/a:
Sem oni dan prebrala vprašanje, rekla, da bom malo razmislila potem pa pozabila. Sem se spomnila danes ob pogovoru o myrrh.
Muškatni vonj je bil zame to pomlad precej interesanten oz. vsaj to za kar ga sama imam. Drugo pomlad bo cvetelo tistih novih 30 angležinj in bom imela več izbire ampak zaenkrat sem sama kot najbolj muškaten identificirala vonj Moonlight. Vonj vleče precej na sladko, tik preden cvet odcveti deluje že nekoliko zatohel. V nos pa mi je padel zato, ker sem opazila, da v določenem stadiju izredno privablja te črne dlakave hrošče. Iz enega in istega cveta sem jih lahko v desetih minutah pobrala tudi deset, točno na določen cvet so šli.
Enak vonj se je, zanimivo, pojavljal tudi na Barnijevi Liola'.
1vrtnica je napisal/a:
Hvala, Garden-ja, to me zelo veseli, ker jo imam že naročeno za jeseni. Wink
Jamain je napisal/a:
Meni pa se zdi, da sem nekje prebrala, da v bistvu to ime (muškatke) nima nobene zvzeze z njihovim vonjem, da pač dišijo, kot dišijo in imajo s svojim imenom bolj malo skupnega... Bi pa morala poiskati, kje sem se do te informacije dokopala...
Garden-ja je napisal/a:
Nimajo veliko skupnega z botanično R. moscato po genetskem potencialu so ji pa podobne in podobno dišijo.
1vrtnica je napisal/a:
Za začetek sem včeraj našla dišeče paličice z vonjem po muškatu (musk). Sicer ne pričakujem od njih kaj preveč, nekaj je pa le. Kasneje bom lahko primerjala z vonjem rastline.
Včeraj sem mimogrede malo pobrskala po trgovinah za mirinim oljem ali kako drugo dišavo in nekaj sem res našla, vendar sem bila zelo razočarana. Vonj tistega olja mi je deloval tako zelo sintetično, sploh mi ni bil všeč. Pa da ne omenjam, da je bil zelo daleč od St.Cecilije. Podobno je bilo tudi z oljem, ki so mi ga poskusili prodati kot vrtnično. Prava žalost.
Jamain je napisal/a:
Ok, da spet ne bo prevelike zmede. Muškat in angleški musk nista ista stvar, sta pa povezana. In če smo prav natančni slovenski prevod te vrste vrtnic ni čisto natančen, a ker je že ustaljen, se bojim, da ni pomoči.
Angleški 'musk' je v slovarju 'Merriam Webster' npr. definiran kot 'a substance with a penetrating persistent odor obtained from a sac beneath the abdominal skin of the male musk deer and used as a perfume fixative' in se prevaja v slovenščino kot mošus (definicija iz SSKJ je 'močno dišeči izloček iz pižmarjeve žleze'). Nič kaj romantično, ne?
Muškat je pa sorta trte oz. tudi vino, za katerega pa v ialijanskem slovarju Garzanti piše, da diši s podobnim vonjem kot mošus (italijansko muschio).
Ko govorimo o parfumih, se v slovenščini uporablja izraz mošus, a pri vrtnicah očitno lepše zveni zadeva z muškatom (tudi asociacije so veliko prijetnejše...).
Ne vem, če sem pomagala, a ker smo bili že na tej temi ...
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Res je, s prevodi je križ. Ampak izgleda, da imajo težavo tudi Italijani, oni imenujejo muscose mahovne vrtnice (z muschio mislijo seveda mah), moscate pa muškatke.
Zna pa biti, da se muškat navezuje na muškatovec, drevo, ki daje muškatni orešček. Ker imamo tudi muškatne buče, ki se zagotovo ne navezujejo na mošus. Se pa morda nanj navezuje muškatno govedo?!
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| Citiram: | 1vrtnica:
ha-ha, muškatno govedo, to bo najbrež rešitev...
Sicer pa ravnokar poskušam iz vonja kadeče se musk paličice ugotoviti, kateri od zaznanih vonjev v njej (oglje, lubje, ogenj..) bi lahko bil mošus. Nekaj malega dišave, ki ga v njem zaznava moj nos, me spominja na nežni vonj Sally Holmes in zelo zelo malo tudi na vino muškat. Ne morem si pomagat ampak jaz voham tudi mandlje.
Najbrž bo to to, lep vonj je. Poskusila bom kje najti še bolj koncentriran vonj, kakšno eterično olje ali kaj podobnega.
Danes sem uspela najti eterično olje mirte in mire. Res je velika razlika med tema dvema vonjema. Mirta je zelo mediteranska, precej ostra, malo me celo spominja na meto. Mira je čisto drugačna, nekako bolj sladkasta in subtilna mi deluje, težko jo je opisati.
St. Cecilija, ki je v eni od sosednjih tem pravzaprav povzročila debato o razliki med tema dvema vonjema, ima še svoje posebnosti. Njen vonj ni čist, je pa mira v njem jasno prepoznavna. D.Austin pravi, da diši po miri, limoni in mandljih. Moj nos voha miro in med. Zaenkrat.
Moj nos je letos navdušen! Angleško vreme te pomladi je ustvarilo idealne pogoje za rast in razvoj angležinj pri meni. Izgleda, da v takih razmerah razvijejo tudi optimalne vonje, ki jih opisuje Austin.
Vse po vrsti dišijo kot za stavo. Zanimivo mi je, da so nekatere precej spremenile vonje v primerjavi z lani. Dopuščam tudi možnost, da moj nos postaja bolj občutljiv in voham vonje, ki jih lani še nisem. Čakam še cvetenje nekaterih, potem bom lahko ocenila, po čem mi pravzaprav dišijo.
Angleško vreme očitno ne odgovarja preveč starim sortam, kar se tiče vonja seveda. Kar nekaj takih, ki so lani zelo močno dišale, letos nima ali pa ima minimalni vonj. Kot je napisala Garden-ja v enem od sosednjih postov - stare vrtnice izgleda rabijo vročino, da razvijejo svoj polni vonj.
Izjema sta Kazanlik, vrtnica, ki jo gojijo za pridobivanje rožnega olja in Quatre Seasons. Lani ni Kazanlik dišal prav nič, letos je pa ta vonj neponovljiv. Zdaj vem, zakaj uporabljajo prav to vrtnico in ne katere druge.
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| Citiram: | lovor:
En samcat ( pa še to od nekih žužkov objeden) cvet Austinove Jude the Obscure mi jo je trenutno postavil na prestol najbolj in najbolje dišeče med mojimi vrtnicami. Potem je pa med angleškimi že blizu Munstead Wood, čeprav imajo tudi ostale ( npr. Eglantyne, Grace, Claire Austin) lepe vonje. Med starimi sortami pa so posebej zadišale Duchesse de Rohan, Rose de Rescht, Felicite Parmentier.
p.s. Naj bo pri tem vzeto v zakup, da so te vrtnice "novorojenke", da nekatere še sploh niso zacvetele ( zlasti rugoze, albe), da so tudi hudi ponavljajoči se nalivi preteklih tednov z nekaterimi cvetovi oz. popki naredili svoje itd... |
Pred časom sem ob enem mojih potepanj po rožnikih naletela na majhen, a toliko bolj dragocen letak. Izdali so ga v nemškem društvu ljubiteljev vrtnic in ko sem ga prebrala, sem bila resnično vesela. Bil je prvi tovrstni seznam, ki mi je do takrat prišel v roke. Govori o vonju vrtnic in prazaprav ni preveč strokoven in niti najmanj obsežen. Na zadnji strani pa je seznam, ob katerem so lahko razveseli vsak ljubitelj rožnih grmov.
Naslov seznama je 'Najlepše dišeče vrtnice za vaš vrt'. Vem, da najbrž ni edini seznam te vrste in tudi kriteriji tega, kateri vonj je najlepši, so odvisni od vsakega posameznika. A zadel je v bistvo tega, zaradi česar amaterski in tudi poklicni navdušenci cenimo antične vrste vrtnic oz. rožne grme - vonj. Antične vrtnice imajo tudi druge lepe lastnosti, vendar je vonj tisto, zaradi česar so jih gojili že v antiki. Vonj je tisto, zaradi česar je vrtnica kraljica rož in vonj je tisto, zaradi česar je bila nekoč vrtnica tako razširjena, da je v nekaterih jezikih beseda za vrtnico in rožo enaka.
V teh septemberskih dneh se večina nas, ki nam vrtnice pomenijo veselje in sprostitev, ukvarja tudi z razmišljanjem o tem, kaj in kje posaditi, da bo v prihodnjih letih raslo in cvetelo. Kriteriji pri izboru rastlin so seveda številni. V pomoč vsem tistim, ki ob tem razmišljate tudi o vonju vrtnic, navajam zgoraj omenjeni seznam. Pa ne kot edini pravilni, bolj kot vzpodbudo k razmisleku in kot povabilo k odzivu in morda celo preveritvi. Saj ne, da dvomim, a vsaka izkušnja je dobrodošla......
Rožni grmi
Jakost vonja: *****
A. Grafin von Hardenberg - Tantau
Chartreuse de Parme - Delbard
Jakost vonja: ****
Agnes Schilliger - Meilland
Ilse Haberland - Kordes
Jaques Cartier - portlandka
Jardin de Villandry - Delbard
Louise Odier - burbonka
Mme Paul Massad - Guillot
Martine Guillot - Guillot
Orsola Spinola - Guillot
Paul Bocuse - Guillot
Postillion - Kordes
Rose de Rescht - portlandka
Rosenresli - Kordes
Souvenir de Louis Armade - Delbard
Souvenir de Marcel Proust - Delbard
Westerland - Kordes
Wife of Bath - D. Austin
Jakost vonja: ***
Charles Austin - D. Austin
Comte de Chambord - portlandka
Constance Spry - D. Austin
Graham Thomas - D. Austin
Heritage - D. Austin
Lichtkonigin Lucia - Kordes
Mme Figaro - Delbard
Mme Hardy - damaščanka
Maiden's Blush - vrtnica alba
Munsterland -
Polka 91 - Meilland
Rose des Cisterciens - Delbard
Rosika -
Sorbet Framboise - Delbard
Weiser Traum
White Gold |
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Garden-ja
Pridružen/-a: 31.05. 2013, 09:40
Prispevkov: 2496
Kraj: okolica Kopra
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| Objavljeno: 05 Jun 2013 01:17 Naslov sporočila: |
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| 1vrtnica je napisal/a: | | Pri meni je letos ponovno najbolj dišala Austinova angležinja Radio Times. Ima zelo močan sadni vonj po limoni. Ob vsej konkurenci Petrovičevih vrtnic pa se zna zgoditi, da bo drugo leto svoj primat izgubila.... |
| Jamain je napisal/a: | | Pri nas vsekakor najbolj dišijo stare vrtnice: Jacques Cartier, večina bourbonk, Rose de Rescht, med modernimi Papa Meilland, Botero, Bolchoi in tako dalje... Verjetno je odvisno tudi, kakšen vonj je komu všeč: meni vsekakor lepše dišijo stare, čeprav se npr. Papa Meilland kot moderen vonj res ne heca. |
Medtem smo vsi že s kakšnim letom več in izkušnjo več pa še marsikatero vrtnico s seznama smo uspeli poznati.
Sama Astrid Grafin von Hardenberg nikakor ne bi dala med tiste, ki dišijo za 5 zvezdic.
So pa vsekakor vse s seznama, ki jih poznam, močno dišeče.
| bobolino je napisal/a: | V svoji zbirki imam nekaj vrtnic, ki so deklarirane z močnim vonjem, in bom jeseni lahko povedala kaj več.
Nova današnja pridobitev je galica Splendens, ki bi tudi naj dišala po miri. |
| Citiram: | Poezija:
Res je Garden-ja, že Abraham Darby diši za odtenek bolj kot Astrid.G.v.H.
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Nazadnje urejal/a Garden-ja 10 Jun 2013 20:33; skupaj popravljeno 1 krat |
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1vrtnica
Pridružen/-a: 03.06. 2013, 19:43
Prispevkov: 549
Kraj: Maribor-okolica
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| Objavljeno: 10 Jun 2013 18:33 Naslov sporočila: |
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Končno imam občutek, da moje vrtnice in jaz nismo več čiste začetnice. Saj vem, da nam še veliko manjka, a kljub temu smo toliko dozorele, da si upam kaj zapisati tudi o vonjih.
Vonj vrtnice se popolnoma razvije šele z doraslostjo vrtnice, torej po 3-4 letih. Pred tem lahko zelo variira, pri nekaterih opažam, da kot majhne skoraj ne dišijo, vendar kasneje razvijejo krasen vonj. Letos je bilo zelo dolgo hladno, temu obdobju je sledilo obdobje precejšnje moče. Vrtnicam je to izgleda kar prijalo, pri meni se prav nič ne pritožujejo. Takšno vreme je imelo tudi odličen vpliv na njihov vonj.
Med starimi vrtnicami lahko letos razločujem posamezne nianse vonjev, prejšnja leta se mi je zdelo, da so vonji podobni. Prav precej se razlikujejo med sabo. V prvo skupino bi tako dala tiste, ki močno dišijo po klinčikh. Ti vonji so meni prav sladki, ne morem jih drugače opisati.
Scabrosa - rugoza, je zacvetela med prvimi. Njen vonj je izredno močan, skoraj čisto po klinčkih diši, brez primesi drugih vonjev.
Quatre Seasons - damaščanka je letos presegla samo sebe. Tako močno do sedaj še ni dišala. Njen vonj ni tako čist, kot pri Scabrosi, moj nos mi pravi, da se mešata vonja po klinčkih in klasični vonj stare vrtnice. Kar je iz te mešanice nastalo, je zeloooo prijetno za moj nos.
Zadnja v tej skupini je klasika, le kaj bi drugega kot damaščanka Kazanlik! Tudi njen vonj je letos mešanica vonja po klinčih in vonja po stari vrtnici. Kar predstavljam si rožna polja, kjer jo gojijo na veliko za predelavo. Letos je tudi pri meni naredila kar visok grm. Na sliki je v ozadju na desni strani.
Nadaljevanje o drugih vonjih sledi, ko se odprejo še ostale 'Trnjulčice'. Nekatere še spijo in sanjajo svoje sanje... |
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rene
Pridružen/-a: 06.06. 2013, 00:24
Prispevkov: 324
Kraj: zgornjesavska dolina
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| Objavljeno: 10 Jun 2013 20:02 Naslov sporočila: |
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Pri meni tudi diši po klinčkih, ampak to zato ker kuham kompot 
Take kot pri tebi me pa še čakajo, če ne bodo prej vse popasle srne. |
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Garden-ja
Pridružen/-a: 31.05. 2013, 09:40
Prispevkov: 2496
Kraj: okolica Kopra
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| Objavljeno: 10 Jun 2013 20:28 Naslov sporočila: |
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Zanimivo, kako različno zaznavamo vonje.
Edina vrtnica, ki zame diši po klinčkih, je Fru Dagmar Hastrup. Ker če rečem po klinčkih, potem mora biti res tako kot da bi nos dala v stekleničko z nageljnovimi žbicami.
Scabrosa ima zame izrazit rožnato smolni vonj, Quatre Seasons pa rožni.
Kazanlink pa kjerkoli sem ga vohala, skorajda ni dišal.
Letos z gotovostjo prepoznam tudi vonj po miri, ciklamni je pa itak zelo izrazit (Nur Mahal, Veilchenblau, Lavender Dream, Polluce in še katera).
Še ena stvar, ki jo pogosto vonjam, je naftalin. 
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Imenuj mi vrtnico in povem ti zgodbo ... |
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1vrtnica
Pridružen/-a: 03.06. 2013, 19:43
Prispevkov: 549
Kraj: Maribor-okolica
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| Objavljeno: 10 Jun 2013 20:39 Naslov sporočila: |
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| Ja Kazanlik takole 'rastura' tudi pri meni prvič, prejšnja leta sem se spraševala, zakaj ga tako cenijo parfumerji. Zdaj vem in jim dam prav! |
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1vrtnica
Pridružen/-a: 03.06. 2013, 19:43
Prispevkov: 549
Kraj: Maribor-okolica
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| Objavljeno: 12 Jun 2013 12:48 Naslov sporočila: |
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2.skupina - vonj po limoni in stari vrtnici
Sem bi zaenkrat dala najprej burbonko Mme. Ernest Calvat. Zelo močan vonj ima, vonjam pa predvsem limono in nekoliko stare vrtnice. Že zdaj, ko vrtnica še ni dorasla in pravzaprav prvič nekoliko obilneje cveti, je njen vonj zaznaven že kak meter od nje. Kaj šele bo!
Naslednja je alba Konigin von Danemark. Pri meni se razrašča nekoliko počasneje in tudi cvetov ni toliko, tisti, ki so, so pa izredni!
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Svojo dušo sem odišavil z vrtnicami. Za vse življenje. (Guillaume Apollinaire) |
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1vrtnica
Pridružen/-a: 03.06. 2013, 19:43
Prispevkov: 549
Kraj: Maribor-okolica
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| Objavljeno: 12 Jun 2013 12:56 Naslov sporočila: |
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3. skupina - vonj po jabolku in stari vrtnici
Ko sem povohala prve cvetove Blairii no.1 najprej nisme mogla verjeti svojemu nosu. Vonj me je popolnoma spominjal na jabolčni čaj, ki smo ga na vsakem vogalu pili v Turčiji. Tudi ta vrtnica se je prav pokazala šele letos, krasno se razvija in lepo prerašča lopo, ob kateri je posajena.
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Svojo dušo sem odišavil z vrtnicami. Za vse življenje. (Guillaume Apollinaire) |
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1vrtnica
Pridružen/-a: 03.06. 2013, 19:43
Prispevkov: 549
Kraj: Maribor-okolica
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| Objavljeno: 12 Jun 2013 13:08 Naslov sporočila: |
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4. skupina - klasični vonj po stari vrtnici
Tukaj bom nanizala le najmočneje dišeče, kar seveda ne pomeni, da tudi ostale vrtnice nimajo vonjev. Večina jih ima, le nekoliko manj izraziti so.
Ta vonj je tista vrtnična klasika, za katerega so moje današnje obiskovalke, ki niso poznavalke vrtnic, soglasno izjavile, da to je vonj vrtnic njihovih babic. In sem se kar strinjala, gre res za tisti klasični vonj, ki si ga predstavljamo pod vonjem vrtnic.
burbonki Mme. Isaac Pereire in Mme. Lauriol de Barny
 
burbonka Souvenir de la Malmaison
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Svojo dušo sem odišavil z vrtnicami. Za vse življenje. (Guillaume Apollinaire) |
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Garden-ja
Pridružen/-a: 31.05. 2013, 09:40
Prispevkov: 2496
Kraj: okolica Kopra
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| Objavljeno: 12 Jun 2013 13:54 Naslov sporočila: |
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Ej pa ravno zdaj, ko je nehala cveteti. Mme. Ernest Calvat namreč. Čakam na naslednji cvet pa poročam.
Da pa ne bo predolgo, javljam, da ima zame najbolj limonin vonj Louis XIV.
Najbolj klasičen, rožni, pa damaščanke, recimo Mme. Hardy.
Mme. Isaac Periere pa je meni mmmm...malina. 
Si tudi ti kje zaznala ciklamnega?
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Imenuj mi vrtnico in povem ti zgodbo ... |
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1vrtnica
Pridružen/-a: 03.06. 2013, 19:43
Prispevkov: 549
Kraj: Maribor-okolica
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| Objavljeno: 12 Jun 2013 19:36 Naslov sporočila: |
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Hja, zanimivo. Mme. Hardy pri meni letos skoraj ne diši.
Ciklamnega še nisem našla, sem pa našla vijolice na Veilchenblau. je komaj začela cveteti in še nimam poštene fotke, bom prilepila kasneje.
Letos imam res veliko veselje z vonji, neprestano tiščim nos v vrtnice. Še naveličale se me boste...
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Svojo dušo sem odišavil z vrtnicami. Za vse življenje. (Guillaume Apollinaire) |
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bobolino
Pridružen/-a: 31.05. 2013, 18:09
Prispevkov: 2921
Kraj: Selnica ob Dravi, 339 nmv
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| Objavljeno: 12 Jun 2013 20:16 Naslov sporočila: |
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Zanimivo, meni je lani Mip nenormalno dišal, letos je bolj medel. Komaj sem čakala na Scepter'd Isle, da doživim tisti famozni vonj po miri, pa me je dobesedno vrglo nazaj, vonj je bil tak sladkoben, hudo močan, dobesedno kot bi stopila v mrliško vežico, tak težek lilijast.
Rose de Rescht je naslednja, ki je tako močno oddajala vonj, drugače pa letos ne morem reči, da vonj veje iz mojih rožnih grmov, kot je lani vse viselo v zraku. Ko pridem blizu z nosom, ja, drugače pa ni tako intenzivno.
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"But he that dares not grasp the thorn should never crave the rose."
Anne Brontë |
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1vrtnica
Pridružen/-a: 03.06. 2013, 19:43
Prispevkov: 549
Kraj: Maribor-okolica
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| Objavljeno: 12 Jun 2013 22:16 Naslov sporočila: |
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Saj, Bobolino, v tem je ravno čar, iz leta v leto je lahko drugače. Čeprav mislim, da se z zrelostjo rastlin to bolj unese in se tako intenziteta kot barva vonja stabilizira. Marsikaj zna biti odvisno tudi od vremenskih razmer - dežja, sonca, toplote. Čez 10-20 let bomo vse skupaj te stvari obvladale 'v nulo'!
Vonj po miri je v bistvu vonj, ki ga ponekod uporabljajo tudi v kadilih, ni pa nujno. Morda si ga kje dobila 'v nos', jaz ga do sedaj na tak način še nisem zasledila v živo. Ko sem pred časom kupovala eterična olja, sem vonj po kadilu našla na steklenički z napisom 'Amber'.
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Svojo dušo sem odišavil z vrtnicami. Za vse življenje. (Guillaume Apollinaire) |
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lovor
Pridružen/-a: 13.06. 2013, 12:31
Prispevkov: 158
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| Objavljeno: 19 Jun 2013 19:02 Naslov sporočila: |
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Še moje kratko poročilo o tem, katere so se v njihovi drugi sezoni ob prvem cvetenju odločile močno in lepo dehteti.
Če razmišljate o novi Davida Austina, nad katere vonjem ne boste razočarani, na prvem mestu pohvalim Jude the Obscure. Vsi pohvalijo močan in silno prijeten sadnji vonj. Tudi veliki čašasti cvetovi v odtenkih kremasto rumene prepričajo. Od Austinovih imata pri meni letos vonje za pohvalit še obe rdeči: Munstead Wood, William Sh. 2000. In pa rožnata klasika Eglantyne.
Med historičnimi vrtnicami so letos v ospredju krasni vonji Felicite Parmentier ( vmes mad albo in damaščanko), Duchesse de Rohanne ( ni čisto jasno, kaj je- provansalka ali muškatni hibrid ali kaj drugega) in Rose de Rescht. Tudi vonj albe Celestial je krasen in svež, a blažji. Na Great Maidens Blush še čakam, je v senci. Mme Hardy pri meni nima izrazitega vonja in je čudovita predvsem na izgled, podobno Ville de Bruxelles. Vonj rugose Hansa je pričakovano med najmočnejšimi, njena raščavost pa tudi ( po tem jo najlažje ločim od Roserai del Hay).
Lep pozdrav vsem na novem forumu  |
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lovor
Pridružen/-a: 13.06. 2013, 12:31
Prispevkov: 158
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| Objavljeno: 21 Jun 2013 18:45 Naslov sporočila: |
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| p.s. Great Maiden Blush diši zelo podobno ( skrajno prijetno) kot Celestial, a precej močneje. |
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Ne, ne moreš dodajati novih tem v tem forumu
Ne, ne moreš odgovarjati na teme v tem forumu
Ne, ne moreš urejati svojih prispevkov v tem forumu
Ne, ne moreš brisati svojih prispevkov v tem forumu
Ne ne moreš glasovati v anketi v tem forumu
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